Pastor Chuck Seilestad Explains Christian Zionism; WHTT Replies

Pastor Chuck Seilestad has written to Charles Carlson, explaining his beliefs.  Bible-college educated layman, Craig Hanson, answers, and I (Carlson) comment.   Craig and I met this Pastor outside his church over two years ago.  Unfortunately, his view of scripture is shared by tens of millions of Americans who are usually referred to as “evangelicals”, but who have become practicing Christian Zionists.  We have learned that most church goers whom we have met outside of more than 120 Zionist churches cannot clearly explain this distorted view of theology–even to themselves.  Please read and ask yourself if you could be influenced by the Christian Zionist belief system. -Editor CEC,

From: Senior Pastor, Chuck Seilestad, Center Points Christian Fellowship
Sacramento, California, email:  drchuck@clstours.com

To: Charles E. Carlson, director We Hold These Truths
Dear Chuck Carlson,

Brother, I call you this if you are a fellow Christian, even if we don’t agree, I want to explain a few things to you if you will listen and read what I have to say. I read your email so please be kind and read mine. As a Pastor and a person who has studied the Bible since a small child, I interpret the Bible from a literal point of view, except where it is obvious that the passages are symbolic. If you are open minded, and not closed minded like many Christians are becoming today, you will be able to examine the Scriptures and come to an obvious conclusion. When God makes a promise that He says is forever, it means forever. If He says it’s everlasting, it means everlasting; that means forever. If not what good is His promises? Remember this question later on in this letter. God spoke to Abram in Genesis 12:3 (King James Version, or choose any other version you may prefer), it says, “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” He further speaks to him in Genesis 17:5-8, that says, Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. What does the word forever and everlasting mean? “Everlasting,” in strictness, is that which endures forever; either that which has no beginning and will have no end (in which sense it is applicable to God only), or that which, having a beginning, will have no end, but henceforth will exist forever. When God promised Abraham the land (Israel as we know it) and his seed (the people) will always be His (God’s) then that means forever, without end. If you curse God’s chosen people (the Jews who rightfully own the Promised Land, which is Israel today, and a whole lot more area that they will possess later) then you are asking for a curse upon your head, delivered by God Himself. But if you bless God’s people, the Jews, then great blessing will come upon you. I could go on with all the political issues in the world today concerning the Middle East, but I won’t because I want to stay on point with this conversation. But, I will say this, if you look at the Aggressors in the Middle East its the Muslim Extremists, not the Jews. I’ve been there many times, I can tell the difference between peaceful people and murderers who stab, shoot, run over people with cars, and strap bombs to their children, and teach them to hate (which by the way are the Muslim Extremists, not the Jews). I’m not using the term Palestinian at this point because there really isn’t any such people, they are predominately Arab, that is a political term invented after the Six Day War of 1967. Read history, if you don’t believe me. Honestly, if you don’t know what to read I’ll point you in the right direction. Remember the question that I asked earlier in this letter? If not what good is His (God’s) promises? Do you believe if you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior that you will receive Eternal (which means Everlasting) Life? If you believe this as I do, then why would you not believe that the seed of Abraham (the Jews) have an Everlasting promise to their land (Israel) as God promised. You can’t pick and choose. We Christians did not replace the Jews for the Promise they were given, we were grafted into the vine, we didn’t replace it. I could go on and on with the truth of the Scriptures but I don’t know how willing you are to accept it. This is not a Dual Covenant stance. All need to come to the cross for forgiveness. One day the Jewish nation will know their Messiah. God will direct them. It would be nice if you would get your facts straight on an issue in your email (there are several, some are theological issues we can get discuss another time) but I want to focus on one issue about Christians United For Israel. Unless you are purposely stating something untrue (called a lie, which I’m hoping you are not outright doing), you are misinformed about a statement you made. John Hagee, does not believe in a ‘dual-covenant’ theology. CUFI does not believe in a ‘dual-covenant’ theology, and neither do I. Christians United For Israel supports the Jewish people in their God given right to their homeland and their very right to exist. That’s what we are all about. We support the promise God made to Abraham and his descendants, and we support Abraham’s descendants. I will say this, I am a member of Christians United For Israel, as well as the members of our church, which by the way is Pro-Israel. We will stand at the Night to Honor Israel, supporting the Jewish people who have the right to their land. The Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:15 that we need to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” Brother, read your Bible and understand the truth of it. If you can’t bring yourself to seek the truth of what I’m telling you, I will pray for you daily. Join with me to receive a blessing, not the curse. I for one, want the blessing of God.

(signed) Dr. Chuck Seilestad Senior Pastor Center Points Christian Fellowship Sacramento, California

For a full account of the June, 2012 Vigil, go to:

 

 

 

       

4 comments

Charles E Carlson
October 18th, 2015

Craig Hanson Answers Dr: Seilestad:
Dear Dr. Seielstad,
 
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my letter to Pastor Cole of Capital Christian Center.
From your writings it is very obvious that you have a sincere desire for understanding the truth of God’s Word. You also claim, as do I, to be a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. So I will be addressing  you as such. From your letter it is very clear that you are looking at scripture through the filter of  Pre-millennial Dispensationalism. We all would like to think that we understand God’s Word completely and inerrantly,  but if we are honest,  we recognize that we are growing in our understanding as we study, pray, and apply God’s Word to our lives. I will not take the time here to refute pre-millennial dispensationalism, but please go to our web site and study the genus of that school of thought and you will find that it is not the historic teaching of the Church. When you quote Genesis 12:3, for a proper interpretation of that scripture, you need to let the Bible interpret itself. Please read Galatians chapter 3 to see how that promise was fulfilled – not in an ethnicity but rather in Jesus! You use the word “forever” many times in your writing. Please do a word study of the Hebrew word “olam” and you will find that it has the concept of a long time or the idea of “to the horizon”. It does NOT embody the current idea of “eternity”. In fact Jonah says he was in the great fish ‘olam”, Jonah 2:6. I am sure that you would agree that Jonah is not still in the fish. The covenants made with the Israelites were conditional covenants. Read Deuteronomy 28 & 29. Romans 9 makes is very clear that just because one is a physical descendant of  Abraham it does not make them a child of God. Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. That has always been God’s plan for “chosenness” – trusting and believing in God. We are NOT replacement theologists and reject that doctrine as heretical. True, we have been grafted in, but the Church has not replaced Israel, but is a fulfillment of  the promises made to her. As far as the land promises to Abraham, please read Joshua 21:43-45. ALL the physical land promises were fulfilled in the days of Joshua. I highly recommend Rob Dalrymple’s book These Brothers of Mine for an excellent Biblical study on how Jesus and the Church are the complete fulfillment of the promises of Land and Family. Please recognize that all scripture does not hold equal value – Jesus said “You have heard it said – but I say unto you…” thus elevating His teachings and life  above that which was made manifest in the Old Testament. Our faith and life practices must look like Jesus if we are to wear His name. “Blessed are the peacemakers” is not an optional teaching of Christ – it must be central. We at We Hold These Truths challenge you to be an ambassador for peace in the name of Jesus.
Craig Hanson

Charles E Carlson
October 18th, 2015

Editor Charles Carlson returns to add:
Dr. Seilestad’s second visit of the day, (this meeting took place in June, 2012) ostensibly to see to our safety, gave me a chance to ask him, “Where in Jesus’ words do you find leave to help those who occupy and often kill the Palestinians?
Seilestad responded with with a patented Christian Zionist dodge.  He said, “There is no occupation of Palestine…why?… because there is no country named Palestine and there never was.”  Note that I asked him a direct, faith-based question about Jesus’ words, and he gave me a political answer about statehood. He no doubt reasons, since the State of Israel and the US government (with others) have for 65 years prevented the United Nations from recognizing “Palestine” territory as a legal state, the people are not “occupied.” But he does not think they have right to property, security, or life itself.  
  Our video which Pastor Dave carried away explains the myth of the non-land grant that was never made to the non-Israelite State of Israel.  I hope he watches it. It is almost inconceivable that a pastor in an $800 blue suit with PhD degrees in theology would not know his statements are false, that Israel does occupy the Palestinian people of West Bank and Gaza, and that God did not give any land to a country that did not exist for 3000 years, and that simply borrowed its name from a book, like the parents of every Paul, John, Mary, and Benjamin have done, does not confer land to them.
 For a full account of the June, 2012 Vigil, go to:

http://whtt.org/challenge-at-zionist-christian-church-in-sacramento-success/

Joe Ortiz
October 19th, 2015

Brother Carlson, Abraham knew he was not destined to dwell in that middle east parcel of land known today as “Israel.” Abraham knew that the faith-believing remnant of Israel would not be granted inheritance based on ethnicity but rather on faith. Those who believe in and have faith in Messiah are the true children of God. While in the Book of Joshua we see specific confirmation in Joshua 23:14-16 that God has already fulfilled His role in the covenant with national Israel, we also see specific confirmation that the Israel of God (the people of faith, not bloodline) were looking forward to the TRUE Promised Land. God preached this Gospel to Abraham (see Galatians 3:7-9; 4:21-27) as the Apostle Paul tells us that it is New Jerusalem, from above, which is the true motherland. Paul further confirms that Abraham and all the patriarch, that great cloud of witnesses, were not looking for their final rest in an arid parcel of land in the Middle East, but for the City of God, that descends with Christ, upon His return. True Jews (those with circumcised hearts) want nothing to do with Old Jerusalem, but rather, they seek to dwell in God’s Tabernacle along with ALL true believers:

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them, (Hebrews 11:8-16).

Brother Carlson, feel free to send this email to Dr.Chuck Seilestad, to peruse the above quoted scripture.

Nathalie
October 20th, 2015

When the translators ‘mistranslated’ the Bible thus began the confusion and the perpetual lie of Jews being the Israelite although they themselves admit in their Jewish almanac that it is INCORRECT to cal a Jew a Hebrew or ancient Israelite. For more info please go here:
http://www.overlordsofchaos.com/html/origin_of_the_word_jew.html